Curse

glenn_rolfe · Feb 02, 2006, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luddendorf

Maybe half of the teams in the top 20 actually belong there. There are average teams like YAY up there and teams like Te, iQ, Val, and SNA are too low ranked by a lot. .

That's a bit tough on YAY. They have improved, and are making the tranistion from a strong tombs guild to a strong GvG guild and are doing well. They like to play their straight up build, 7v7, at the flag stand and push in from there. It'll win them plenty of matches because they play well together, but equally tactically they may struggle at times. But good luck to them.

(Don't tell sticky we caught a YAY guy doing IWAY - he'll get mad)

ISerraphimI · Feb 02, 2006, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

There are 1500 guilds who have won more than they have lost in GvG, meaning I guess that there are 3000 or more reasonably active GvG teams. Now even if you discount smurfs and disbanded guilds etc there are still alot of Guilds, I would hazard a guess at well over 500, who are pretty good. yes they'll get rolled on by a team rank <50, but they'll give pretty much anyone else a good game.

Personally I have found that the standard has increased dramatically over the course of the last ladder season. Even in mid season we could expect to roll over a rank 400 team pretty easily (and we're not by a long way the best team in the world), that just isnt true any more, most of these teams will put up a pretty good fight now, even down to rank 700 or so (or at least did so prior to the ladder lock, since when everyone has been mucking around).

My experience is that the guilds in the top 100 are all very good teams - OK, there is another group that are way above that (the top 15 or so), but getting into the top 100 is still a huge achievement, and the top 50 even more so, and requires a pretty high standard of play.

I think alot of people are blinded by IWAY. Its a perfectly viable build if run well, same as ranger spike, same as ele spike, same as pressure. just because it is played (usually very poorly) by new players doesnt make it a bad build. I've seen poor ranger spikes, poor ele spikes and pressure builds that didnt do any pressure. Doesnt make them bad builds, it makes them bad players.

All MATH have have done is take a tried and tested tombs build and adapted it very successfully for GvG. Maybe they were lucky in that the metagame suddenly changed to suit their build, or maybe they changed their build to suit the metagame, either way, to have risen as fast as they have with a build that doesnt on the face of it suit GvG at all tells me that they are doing something very much right, and to be rank 39 is a great achievement, something that literally hundreds of guilds would give their right arm for, ourselves included. To disrespect them just because they are running IWAY is like disrepsecting Rus Corp for running Air spike, something i suspect born out of frustration at not being able to beat them. One thing this game is full of is bad losers, thats for sure.

This is coming from a Math officer and I have to say that I could not agree more with Patrograd's post...

Don't know why so many people hate MATH
Like Patrograd said, it is probably frustration.

All the people who say things like:
"MATH omg its the noob guild"
"MATH what are you goin to do after the update..."
somehow just do not understand that one can't be a noob if u have a rank in the top 20s. We have worked our way up like any other guilds...

I know that everyone is entitled to their opinion but all the MATH haters you have to show us at least some respect... No "noob guild" can get a high rank.
And please let me also make it clear that all people who say "IWAY doesnt require skill" are not right at all.
Like some people before me have already put it, IWAY is not simply running in and bashing the targets and do this bt pressing 1,2,1,.. whatever
IWAY requires skill, tactics and game sense. If it didn't, how come there are many IWAY groups who have no idea what they are doing.
To think that MATH resembles all other IWAYs exept that they dont attack trough SS (or other nonsense I have read in this post) is just way out of the line.
Just another quick note, we earn our individual rank like everyone else does it. Statements like "ZOMG r9 (math) iway noob!" are hilarious seeing the fact that they dont make sense.
When one loses to iway and says "no gg for iway", well we dont take it seriously anymore.

Thanks

-Evil Kane. (Proud member of MATH no matter what people might say)

P.s. We are rank 14 now just to update ^^

Scown-dog · Feb 02, 2006, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Iway doesn't Require Skill.
Ranger Spike doesn't require skill.
Smiting doesn't require skill.
Balanced doesn't require skill.
FoC Spike doesn't require skill.
EoE Bomb doesn't require skill.

No build requires skill. It only requires skill to run them EFFECTIVELY.

JR · Feb 02, 2006, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scown-dog

No build requires skill. It only requires skill to run them EFFECTIVELY.

Surely that's the same thing?

Slimster · Feb 02, 2006, 08:46 AM // 08:46

The 2 crippling shot rangers that MATH runs is definetily better for gvg, it makes it incredibly hard for warriors to take out spirits and makes it easy for you to control the map. Also you can use the rangers to help spike, i'll admit i hadn't thought of that, i was pretty impressed. i suppose the only effective way to shut that down with a normal balanced gvg build is to run away from the spirits or use a ranger or ele to take them out if possible..

JR · Feb 02, 2006, 09:00 AM // 09:00

This is *not* a thread about MATH. If you wan't to discuss a particular point in the way that MATH runs their build, and how that might effect counters that is fine. Just please don't turn this into a thread entirely about them, that is not what he OP intended.

Slimster · Feb 02, 2006, 09:28 AM // 09:28

MATH runs the best gvg iway build, so if u want to beat any iway gvg might as well focus on how to ebat them and the rest of the iway teams will be easy.......... i just proposed what i think would be the best solutions....... but i donno cause i haven't played vs them gvg yet... honestly vs any other iway team cripple the warriors, e denial the trappers, kill the spirits, interupt the necros... gg for them, for math you have to beat thier ability to control the map, i think the only way to do that is split team... sneak around the back and take out thier necros and spirits.. u still have to deal with thier rangers though so you would need a monk with mend ailment or restore condition. and a ranger or air ele would probobly be best for taking the spirits out. as for crippling MATH warriors, they spam martyr every ten seconds, so you would need awsome rangers on your team. and for e denying them won't work because, they have blood ritual on thier necros which. Or heres an idea if you can't do a split team take out the spirits and then interupt martyr with distracting shot or diversion...
I'm just proposing some ideas that i think may work... i know for sure that the first thing you need worry about is the spirits... take them out or fight out side of their aoe, if you start with that the rest will go pretty smoothe..
I noticed that MATH gvg vs Top ranked guilds, eoe was what finished the game for them.... once the eoe started hitting MATH had the match in the bag FTW...

suiraCLAW · Feb 13, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

a simple way to lower iway's damage output is by placing greater conflagration (elite ranger skill) (and defend it): this will stop orders, winnowing and predaotry season in range.

off course this is only possible for builds with almost none physical dmg output...

NOTE: ward against harm works pretty well combined with GC

Vindexus · Feb 13, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

A while ago we faced IWAY in GvG and we did basically what Ensign said. We kept pushing out and killing their Flag Runner. I was at 60% for a while with others at 30 and 45 and we were still winning because they weren't getting their signets back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slimster

MATH runs the best gvg iway build, so if u want to beat any iway gvg might as well focus on how to ebat them and the rest of the iway teams will be easy.......... i just proposed what i think would be the best solutions....... but i donno cause i haven't played vs them gvg yet... honestly vs any other iway team cripple the warriors, e denial the trappers, kill the spirits, interupt the necros... gg for them, for math you have to beat thier ability to control the map, i think the only way to do that is split team... sneak around the back and take out thier necros and spirits.. u still have to deal with thier rangers though so you would need a monk with mend ailment or restore condition. and a ranger or air ele would probobly be best for taking the spirits out. as for crippling MATH warriors, they spam martyr every ten seconds, so you would need awsome rangers on your team. and for e denying them won't work because, they have blood ritual on thier necros which. Or heres an idea if you can't do a split team take out the spirits and then interupt martyr with distracting shot or diversion...
I'm just proposing some ideas that i think may work... i know for sure that the first thing you need worry about is the spirits... take them out or fight out side of their aoe, if you start with that the rest will go pretty smoothe..
I noticed that MATH gvg vs Top ranked guilds, eoe was what finished the game for them.... once the eoe started hitting MATH had the match in the bag FTW...

Periods are best used in groups of one, L2T. Splitting vs IWAY means they'll gank you and win.

Unsung · Feb 13, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

LoL to be honest with u guys the only reason 'i think' u all h8 IWAY is because lots of ppl make a organised r3+ (for example) balanced or somit build then a noob iway comes along and destroys u
and iway does take skill 2 run like (MATH) xD

Byron · Feb 13, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISerraphimI

All the people who say things like:
"MATH omg its the noob guild"
"MATH what are you goin to do after the update..."
somehow just do not understand that one can't be a noob if u have a rank in the top 20s. We have worked our way up like any other guilds...

I know that everyone is entitled to their opinion but all the MATH haters you have to show us at least some respect... No "noob guild" can get a high rank.
And please let me also make it clear that all people who say "IWAY doesnt require skill" are not right at all.

Sorry JR, but I have to say something of MATH...

This was spoken like a champion, my friend. I for one, love what MATH has done and love watching them play. Its stupid to argue with results, isnt it? I hope you continue to climb the ranks and shun all your unjustified criticisms. But I also hope I personally never encounter you in a guild battle or the HoH...

In the end, I guess, the losers have to hate someone.

Vindexus · Feb 13, 2006, 09:34 PM // 21:34

This thread is not about MATH, it is about IWAY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unsung

LoL to be honest with u guys the only reason 'i think' u all h8 IWAY is because lots of ppl make a organised r3+ (for example) balanced or somit build then a noob iway comes along and destroys u
and iway does take skill 2 run like (MATH) xD

You've read this quite thoroughly, haven't you?

http://www.guidenet.net/resources/wanker.html

Ronin Rangerin · Mar 01, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

To those who say that iway doesent require skill have obviously never played it. Theres alot more individual skill involved in a successful iway battle. There are iway teams that will die in the first few maps, just like any noob balance or spike team, and there are iways that will make it to halls consistantly and hold it, just like some leet spike and balanced teams.

Ive seen top 10 guilds running iway and some leet balanced players playing iway who totally suck at it and get killed on the first or second map just like an unranked iway pug. So the no skill thing is bs.

That being said, Math isnt the best iway group anymore. I know of a few iway pugs that plays together alot who win and hold halls much more than math now, and consististanly beat math on any map.

btw Im not an iway "noob." I just have more of an open mind than most international groups and play ALL builds and have held halls upwards of 6 times on multiple occasions with all builds. and dont stubbornly snub one out because the general consensus is that its noobish.

JR · Mar 01, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin Rangerin

Ive seen top 10 guilds running iway and some leet balanced players playing iway who totally suck at it and get killed on the first or second map just like an unranked iway pug.

Generally top guilds play IWAY in tombs for fun. It's a nice way to blow off steam and relax after playing dozens of guild battles with serious builds. If you think IWAY requires plenty of skill, you have obviously never played with decent players, using a decent build.

However, this isn't a debate on how good IWAY is, but how to fight it in GvG.

Ronin Rangerin · Mar 01, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Actually Im rank 9 and have played with all the decent guilds with all the decent builds. you obviously didnt read my post properly and are just saying the same thing as everyone else about iway.

I also didnt say plenty of skill, I said not no skill

So please dont take any attempt you can to bash Iway cuz Im really sick of people crying about it. Im not an iway player by any means but am just sick of people like you who flame others just cuz of the build they choose to run. People are learning very quickly how to beat iway, maybe you should too.

JR · Mar 01, 2006, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin Rangerin

Actually Im rank 9 and have played with all the decent guilds with all the decent builds. you obviously didnt read my post properly and are just saying the same thing as everyone else about iway.

I also didnt say plenty of skill, I said not no skill

So please dont take any attempt you can to bash Iway cuz Im really sick of people crying about it. Im not an iway player by any means but am just sick of people like you who flame others just cuz of the build they choose to run. People are learning very quickly how to beat iway, maybe you should too.

1) Rank 9? You have a flashy emote that means nothing, well done.

2) Your post said IWAY requires skill... It doesn't. It may require a bit of common sense not to completely mess it up, but certainly not skill as I see it.

3) I didn't flame anyone, so jump off your high horse.

4) I am not bashing IWAY, I think it is actually a decent build. The fact that I believe it takes no skill to run does not mean I think it is trash.

5) Where in my post did I say I struggled to beat IWAY? Taking cheap shots will not gain you any points here.

Remember, there is a difference between the skill it takes to run something, and the skill it takes to run something WELL.

Studio Ghibli · Mar 01, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

I've beat an IWAY before, but it was with a gimmick build, so.. I guess it's not much different.

In any case, when I'm in IWAY, you can tell the difference between a -good- IWAY team and an okay IWAY team.